1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,960 The object was called an airship and was said to have an escort of four other airships, 2 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:13,000 all of which are referred to as flying saucers. 3 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:18,120 People have been seeing them for years, but never with such certainty and agreement of 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,120 description. 5 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:25,520 Past sightings of such unidentified flying objects have been so numerous that the federal 6 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:32,520 government through the U.S. Air Force has established an inquiry group to look into such reports. 7 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:39,400 The civilian chief of this inquiry group is Dr. J. Allen Heineck, Professor of Astronomy 8 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,200 at Northwestern University. 9 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:47,200 One might say that he's the highest ranking and most informed person in the government 10 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:48,200 on the subject. 11 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:54,240 It is therefore a particular privilege for us to be able to speak with Dr. Heineck and 12 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:59,680 get the best possible answers to questions that are of interest to everyone. 13 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:05,080 Sir, in the most recent incident we understand that about 60 people claim to have seen the 14 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,200 same thing at the same time. 15 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:13,320 First would you describe what they say they saw and then tell us what you think it was. 16 00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:19,480 Well, first of all, there, I cannot say that they all said they saw the same thing. 17 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:26,920 It is true that several small groups of people were fairly, in fact, quite consistent in 18 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:31,520 the description of what they saw. 19 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:39,120 And I would say they were very sincere and honest and were reporting to the best of their 20 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:40,120 abilities. 21 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:44,840 Now, there were two primary cases. 22 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:52,360 Now, it is true that many sporadic and scattered reports came in from all over and I certainly 23 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,840 couldn't have taken the time to investigate all of those. 24 00:01:55,840 --> 00:02:05,160 However, I concentrated my attention on the two best described events, those that had 25 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:12,680 the most observers and the most that had some residue or least common denominator, one might 26 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:13,680 say. 27 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,760 Well, now what were these? 28 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:25,040 Both instances, separated by some 60 miles, occurred in swamps. 29 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:31,680 I know because I trapped through that swamp for two hours and it was not very pleasant. 30 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:40,480 Now, first of all, it seemed to me that this could hardly be a coincidence that the lights 31 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:47,160 and let me remind you that all that was described with the exception of two people. 32 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:56,560 The great majority of the people described only lights, a glow and rather small red, 33 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,080 yellow and green lights. 34 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:05,640 Now the fact that this occurred near a swamp or at a swamp in both cases, a great number 35 00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:15,360 of observers were referring to those two events led me to follow that as a clue. 36 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,280 Now an astronomer doesn't usually worry about swamps. 37 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,640 His eyes are looking elsewhere generally. 38 00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:34,680 But in as rapid and as thorough away as was possible in that time, I did notice, for instance, 39 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:42,600 that in Professor Minert's book, and Minert is an astronomer, he describes in his book 40 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:50,200 Light and Color in the Open Air, he describes lights of these colors, green, red and yellow 41 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:57,120 and white, as dancing around swamp areas. 42 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:06,280 The well of the Whiz sometimes called Ignis Phatis and known by other names also, I believe 43 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,640 Foxfire is another name given to it. 44 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:21,680 At any rate, then in some chemistry books and in talks with various chemistry and zoology 45 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:29,600 and botany professors, I was told by them, and this is in their field, that it is quite 46 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:40,200 common for the rotting vegetation underneath the ice in swampy areas during winter to develop 47 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:47,880 a fair amount of marsh gas, which is methane, CH4, also phosphine, pH 3. 48 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:56,320 The phosphine can, they tell me, spontaneously ignite. 49 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:04,320 After the, when a spring thaw comes and the gases can bubble up from below and get released, 50 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:11,680 the gases can ignite spontaneously and they flicker all over other places. 51 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:16,760 They'll flicker at one place and then go out and suddenly appear someplace else, which 52 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,760 gives the illusion of motion. 53 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:28,080 And this description fit quite well, the description that both the many co-eds at the Hillsdale 54 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:37,880 College told me and also the policemen who were actually in the swamp and saw the life 55 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:38,880 themselves. 56 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:50,680 None of the policemen, as far as the swamp experience is concerned, observed any object. 57 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:55,320 They observed lights, a glow. 58 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:56,320 And so there, there we are. 59 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:00,840 Maybe you would like to have asked more about that, but I think this sums up the thing, 60 00:06:00,840 --> 00:06:08,960 but I'd like to emphasize here that this does not, in no sense of the word, by this 61 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:16,360 particular explanation, which refers to these two specific cases, am I trying to give a 62 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:22,800 blanket interpretation or a blanket solution to the entire UFO phenomenon? 63 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:27,440 In this particular case, Dr. Heineck, you mentioned that there were some co-eds and 64 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:28,440 policemen out there. 65 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:32,320 Does this make up the basic group of those who saw it? 66 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,520 Yes, it does. 67 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:43,680 There were no, with the exception of the Civil Defense Director in Hillsdale, I would say 68 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:49,200 there were no technically trained observers. 69 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:55,120 By this I do not mean that there were no intelligent observers. 70 00:06:55,120 --> 00:07:05,920 The great majority were very intelligent observers, but not technically trained in the, as chemists 71 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,680 let's say, or as physicists. 72 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:14,320 For instance, wouldn't it have been nice had we gotten the spectrographic analysis of the 73 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:15,320 lights? 74 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,280 That would solve the problem immediately. 75 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,240 But these observers were not unintelligent people, obviously. 76 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,240 No, they definitely not. 77 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:31,280 And they were, I can understand, and I sort of feel very sympathetic, particularly to 78 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:39,640 Mr. Manor, the farmer in question, whose land was quickly overrun by the curiosity seekers 79 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:46,960 and he was called all sorts of strange names like Martian and so forth. 80 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:57,520 It is just too bad that mass hysteria can take over after a perfectly honest and sincere 81 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:58,520 sighting is reported. 82 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:05,000 I mean, at this point straight, these people that saw this weren't in any way excited about 83 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,160 it or hysterical about the fact. 84 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:11,040 They were seriously observing what they thought they saw. 85 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:12,720 That is absolutely correct. 86 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:18,840 Even the young ladies at the college, you would normally expect they might get hysterical 87 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:25,400 and rush around and say strange things, but according to all reports I had, and when I 88 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:29,400 talked to them myself, they were quite level-headed. 89 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:34,680 But the lights they saw were localized to the swamp area. 90 00:08:34,680 --> 00:08:40,640 They were described as red and yellow and green. 91 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:44,920 And they did not move very far from the general locale of the swamp. 92 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:51,720 Well, let me ask this, sir, why haven't these local residents seen this kind of gas before? 93 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,760 Well, that's a question I asked myself too. 94 00:08:54,760 --> 00:09:00,960 I said, well, look, there are lots of swamps in Michigan and why, therefore, isn't this 95 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,160 a very common phenomenon? 96 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:15,480 Well, I think we have must, if we pursue this explanation investigation, we must say that 97 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:22,400 the particular seasonal conditions were such as to produce it at this time. 98 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:30,000 That is, the winter was, I understand in that area, was unusually mild. 99 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:39,480 The thaw had just occurred, and it could very well be that the swamp guests may funnel 100 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,720 up in certain places more than it does in others. 101 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:51,560 Although since this has happened, and even before the Air Force explanation was given, 102 00:09:51,560 --> 00:09:58,600 I've had numerous letters now from people in Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota, all saying before 103 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:03,640 these explanations were given, incidentally, that, well, this must be the explanation that 104 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:10,080 they as children in their past experience have seen lights of this sort quite frequently. 105 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,440 Lights of the sort that might have been swab gasses, is that it? 106 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,000 Well, definitely were, and in their cases, without question. 107 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:22,920 Well, a lot of the people react to your findings after you told them what you thought you saw 108 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:26,240 there, in regard to what they thought they saw. 109 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:32,120 One newspaper columnist in Chicago, a group of cops, that reports this morning that you 110 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:37,480 seem to indicate they wanted to run you out of town because their sightings weren't valid. 111 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:48,840 Well, I said that facetiously, but I think there was a genuine disappointment that I 112 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:54,640 wouldn't come out and say that this was unexplainable and that we probably were being visited by 113 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:59,760 space people because there is a tremendous will to believe. 114 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:08,400 I'm not a psychologist, but as an armchair or a curb stone psychologist, it appears to 115 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:18,640 me that we live in such frightening times with so much worst fear and the, well, the 116 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:24,600 times are unstable, you might say. 117 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:33,480 And with the space age dawning, having definitely dawned, of course, people would love, I think, 118 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,360 very dearly love to have some help come to us from the outside. 119 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:44,920 And it seems also that perhaps the old time religion isn't quite scientific enough for 120 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:52,440 many people and they would like to, I think, sort of latch on to the idea that our big 121 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,680 brothers from outer space are coming in to help us out or something like that. 122 00:11:56,680 --> 00:12:03,320 Do you believe, sir, that it's possible that, since you understand outer space best, perhaps 123 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:10,320 you can answer this more valid, more valid answer than most people, knowing outer space 124 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:15,680 as you do, what do you think are the chances that this planet of Earth might be visited 125 00:12:15,680 --> 00:12:18,880 by something from another world? 126 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:25,040 I think there is a fairly clear answer to that. 127 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:31,680 Astronomers, the great majority of astronomers today would agree, I believe, that it is rather 128 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:38,160 cosmically provincial to feel that we would be the only or the highest intelligence in 129 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:48,160 the universe and that there are undoubtedly, perhaps even millions of other solar systems, 130 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:53,040 which does not necessarily mean that they have intelligent life, but again, if there 131 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:58,880 are millions of solar systems, why just ours to have life on it? 132 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:06,080 Well, I think here we must distinguish between two words, possible and probable. 133 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:12,800 And very frequently the public mixes up these two words. 134 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:19,800 I would say, and I think most of my colleagues would agree with me, that it is entirely possible 135 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:27,800 that we might in the past or present be visited by outside distance civilizations, but it 136 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,920 is highly improbable. 137 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:42,240 The difference between possible and probable, I think, must be emphasized here because the 138 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:49,240 distances are so, as far as we know, are so extremely vast that they are not as far 139 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,240 as we could travel with speed of light. 140 00:13:53,240 --> 00:14:00,240 It would still take a great many years to get here from, on our time scale, to get here 141 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:02,720 from these places. 142 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:09,720 It would have to be some sort of a being that could transmit itself in other than a physical 143 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,040 form, one that would have to travel at distance. 144 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:17,920 Well, that's a rather interesting concept and certainly it's not in the field of physical 145 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,440 science as yet at any rate to consider that. 146 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:28,440 But I've been, see, I have investigated or, no, no, this is not right, I have read, or 147 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:36,760 in the past 18 years, what I've been Air Force's consultant on this, over 10,000 cases. 148 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:45,600 And the great, great, great majority of these are easily explained, well, what are the primary 149 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:46,600 explanations? 150 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:53,600 Aircraft, balloons, meteors, stars, satellites. In fact, people in general, even though sincere, 151 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,080 are quite poor observers. 152 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:07,080 And they, so that in the great, great majority of cases, a UFO, an unidentified flying object 153 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:13,120 is merely a usual thing seen under unusual circumstances. 154 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:18,560 But there are several hundred actually unexplained cases. 155 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,640 Now why are they unexplained? 156 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,480 Perhaps because they were not sufficiently investigated. 157 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:31,480 On the other hand, there remains the possibility that any open-minded scientist must not close 158 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:38,480 his mind to the possibility that there are things that we yet do not know about. 159 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:45,460 In the 18 years you've been studying us for the U.S. Air Force, how many have been reported 160 00:15:45,460 --> 00:15:46,460 totally? 161 00:15:46,460 --> 00:15:51,840 Well over 10,000 have been reported just to the Air Force. 162 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:58,600 And that is in this country, now the Air Force does not by any means get all the reports. 163 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:03,480 There are many civilian groups who gather reports. 164 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:10,480 And as was mentioned in the Ballet's book, for instance, the Anatomy of a Phenomenon, 165 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:19,040 he pointed out and made a very good case and showed that the UFO phenomenon was a global 166 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:21,320 thing. 167 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:26,480 France, for instance, had a tremendous wave of sightings in 1954. 168 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:32,160 Brazil and Argentina this past year, France and England have had quite a few. 169 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:39,200 In fact, England, I believe, has per square mile more UFO sightings than we do. 170 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:44,920 And here we always thought living in our little world around this Midwestern state that we 171 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,000 only saw them in the United States. 172 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:53,440 Then this is a worldwide problem and is there any kind of coordination that's achieved with 173 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:54,840 other countries in the subject? 174 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:56,720 Well, you bring up a good point though. 175 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:03,720 I'm just wondering whether, I don't know whether to suggest this, to what degree of 176 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:10,040 seriousness that I should suggest this, but since it is a global thing and could possibly 177 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:17,040 affect international relations, I'm just wondering whether, I'm totally to say the United Nations 178 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:24,040 or UNESCO or something might set up a small commission to look into this. 179 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:33,520 I have already in my capacity as a scientific consultant to the Air Force recommended some 180 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:40,520 time ago, quite a long time before this happened, this present sighting happened, that in those 181 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:48,520 competent scientists quietly study such cases when the evidence from responsible people 182 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,280 appears to warrant such study. 183 00:17:55,280 --> 00:18:02,280 But I want to emphasize the study should be scientific, quiet, unpublicized and you know, 184 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:08,800 it was done in a dignified way without devoid of all the mass hysteria that comes in with 185 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:09,800 these things. 186 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:15,080 Some of these kinds of investigations been carried out that we don't know about. 187 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:22,080 I have carried out a few, but there are a number of cases, for instance, I don't know, 188 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:33,840 but I honestly don't know what to think of the case reported in Cuernavaca, Mexico last 189 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:41,240 September. Reputedly, unfortunately couldn't get down there for one thing, the Air Force 190 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:50,400 has no jurisdiction in Mexico, but here is again a case of where this UN commission 191 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:57,400 might look into things like this. There was a startling report made in Cuernavaca which 192 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:05,040 on the face of it seems extremely mysterious, but I want to emphasize on the face of it. 193 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:13,480 If we dig down and investigate it, it may turn out to be a perfectly normal natural thing. 194 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,840 At the moment I don't see how. 195 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:22,680 Going along your lines of thinking concerning a UN commission, it is true that in Congress, 196 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:27,680 among all the congressmen that are there, there are certainly a large group of skeptics 197 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:34,680 and they seem to want to organize a congressional investigation of this latest incident. What 198 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,680 do you think about that? 199 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:43,680 Well, a scientist should always welcome an investigation if it's a scientific investigation. 200 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:52,520 I think it depends here on what is meant by a congressional investigation. 201 00:19:53,520 --> 00:20:00,520 If competent witnesses are called in and the whole situation is studied scientifically 202 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:09,320 and given more time to it than one person could give to it, I would welcome such a thing. 203 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:15,520 Who do you think would give you your strongest arguments, by the way? Four or against? Either 204 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:21,640 way, I think in favor of the reality of these things, who do you think would give you your 205 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,680 biggest argument? 206 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:30,680 Well, I think the people right in Michigan, the sheriff, Sheriff Harley and the farmer, 207 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:40,600 Mr. Manor, and a number of people around there, there have been some reports even after that, 208 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:47,600 I understand. I think they would give, because they were sincerely puzzled. I mean, I found 209 00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:55,360 in this no attempt at a hoax, at least I don't think so, so that people say, well, I don't 210 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:04,080 know what you say about this, but I know what I saw. I believe what I see. Well, but human 211 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:11,080 eye can be deceived. I've even heard people, and I'm sure you remember these occasions, 212 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:18,520 accused you of being in a kind of collusion with the government and denying these things. 213 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:25,280 Well, this I can categorically deny, because the press release, for instance, of last Friday 214 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:32,280 was written by me and only by me. It's in my own handwriting, in my own style, and the 215 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:37,320 Air Force gave me complete freedom to say what I wished. 216 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:44,320 I have one more question, sir. In your opinion, which of these incidents, thousands that have 217 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:49,320 existed over the past 18 years you've been studying them, appear to be the most interesting, 218 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:55,320 or which seems to be the most valid to you? Can you remember any one in particular? I'd 219 00:21:55,320 --> 00:22:01,520 hate to pick one in particular, because somebody might say, well, I know that that was such 220 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:08,520 an incident so forth, but let's see, offhand, there was the rather interesting case in Holman, 221 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:14,520 New York, which was unpublicized. There was an interesting case, as I mentioned in Cuernavaca, 222 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:21,520 Mexico. It was a case in Bismarck, North Dakota, a number of years ago. One in Monticello, 223 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:29,920 Wisconsin. One could go on. Well, what would be the most unexplainable factor in the incident 224 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:36,920 that makes it interesting to you? Well, of course, the most interesting thing would be 225 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:44,920 what is it that they really saw, but apart from that, what bothers me is that there are 226 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:50,920 generally so few witnesses. Now, if a real supposed, for the moment, to re-conjecture, 227 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:56,620 and I'm not saying this seriously, but suppose that we were to conjecture and hypothesize 228 00:22:56,620 --> 00:23:03,620 that a spacecraft were visiting us, then isn't it logical to suppose that A, marvelous surveillance 229 00:23:05,380 --> 00:23:12,380 systems would pick this up? Secondly, if it's seen at point A, why is it not also seen 230 00:23:14,820 --> 00:23:21,180 on its way to point B? If an airliner leaves O'Hare, Chicago, and on its way to San Francisco, 231 00:23:21,180 --> 00:23:26,700 you can track its path. You would see it in Omaha and Denver and Salt Lake City and so 232 00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:33,700 forth. Whereas the thing that bothers me about some of these sightings is that suddenly 233 00:23:35,220 --> 00:23:42,220 an object or a light or something, a sighting, is reported at location A, and then it just 234 00:23:43,140 --> 00:23:49,540 seems to go up vertically, they say, and nobody sees it go away, really. I think we have one 235 00:23:49,540 --> 00:23:56,220 very current example from the newspaper of March 28th, Chicago Sun Times reports from 236 00:23:56,220 --> 00:24:02,100 a place called Bad Axe, again in the Midwest state of Michigan. Free policemen in this 237 00:24:02,100 --> 00:24:08,940 little community in Michigan's thumb reported watching a bright blue light over Lake Huron 238 00:24:08,940 --> 00:24:15,660 for about half an hour early Sunday. Bad Axe policeman Peter Torres described the object 239 00:24:15,700 --> 00:24:22,700 as very large and moving too fast to be a star. I'd like to comment on things like that. 240 00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:28,940 I have no reference to this particular piece because I don't know him and he may be quite 241 00:24:28,940 --> 00:24:35,220 competent and sincere, but more generally, here's a typical report that will come in 242 00:24:35,220 --> 00:24:42,220 as a typical statement. I'll ask someone, what was the object moving? Oh, it was moving 243 00:24:42,300 --> 00:24:48,800 very fast, very fast. Well, how fast? Well, I think 500 miles an hour or more. Well, that's 244 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:54,060 interesting. How long did you see it? About two hours. Well, now what do you do with 245 00:24:54,060 --> 00:24:59,780 things like that? There are so many contradictions and you have to throw contradictory evidence 246 00:24:59,780 --> 00:25:05,060 out. You just can't try to give it credence. One of the policemen says that something is 247 00:25:05,060 --> 00:25:10,340 moving too fast to be a star. A policeman knows a good deal about speed on the road, 248 00:25:10,420 --> 00:25:15,580 but we wonder if he knows about the speed of a star. I would say that's a good point 249 00:25:15,580 --> 00:25:20,740 you make there. Well, thank you very much, sir. It's been a pleasure speaking to you. 250 00:25:20,740 --> 00:25:27,240 We've been talking with Dr. J. L. and Heineck, professor of astronomy at Northwestern University 251 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:33,420 and chief civilian investigator for the U.S. Air Force on the subject of unidentified flying 252 00:25:33,420 --> 00:25:38,620 objects. This is John Schlemmer, The Voice of America, Chicago.